New Light Fittings – What I would install
Downlights, Energy Efficient Lighting, General Technical Stuff April 14th, 2009Everyone asks me for advice on what type of light fittings to install.
Sometimes they have already bought the lights, sometimes they have drilled the holes in the ceiling already, nearly everyone has a friend who is an electrician who “knows all about lights” but very rarely does anyone ever come to me and ask “what would you do if you were starting new?”.
In fact there have been only 2 people that didn’t have any commitment or prejudice to one style or another and both took my advice and are over the moon with the results. The sad thing is that I make less money putting customers into the right light fitting than I do putting them into the wrong one (what is wrong with me??)
Here is a picture of my dream light (click on it and it gets bigger)
Now a lot of people are scratching their heads wondering why this is so exciting. There are so many reasons to get excited about I dont know where to start.
They look good, they look modern and they arent big and bulky. They take a stock standard cheap CFL ES globe you can buy at Woolworths or Coles. They arent a fancy bulb that you need to get a bank loan to buy! You can put a 15 watt globe in there that will be the equivalent of a 75 watt globe so you get heaps of light! If you put a warm coloured compact fluro globe in there you wont even know that it is a fluorescent globe at all. They are cheap so the wife will love them! The main reason I love them is that these are the first design where someone has actually looked at the shape of a compact fluoro globe and wants to get the most light for the customer out of the fitting. You see the globe is mounted sideways. This means that you get the most light as possible where you need it. Other fittings have the globe in a upright position. This means all the light is going sideways!
They are available in white and satin chrome so will suit most interior designs. There is one negative though. The dimmable compact fluorescent globes currently available wont fit in them. This means you cant dim them. But hey, there are so many advantages these far outweigh the disadvantages (who’s to say dimmable globes won’t get smaller in size too and fit in later down the track)
Contact me if you want me to quote you on some
Good luck with your lighting in your home
Kind regards
Daniel
UPDATE: I have added these energy saving fittings to the site in single quantities. If you need 14 or more I might be able to squeeze the price little – Contact me
Here is a short video I have put together with further info
April 16th, 2009 at 9:42 am
New Light Fittings – What I would install
Hi,
These lights look good – what are they called. I couldn’t find them in your brochure.
Is there a considerable trade off regarding quality of lights with the CFLES globe compared to the hallogen?
Also I assume these don’t need transformers? Only reason I ask is that I seem to blow bulbs regularly from surges and was hoping the transformer would buffer somewhat against this. Are CFLES still likely to blow if I get surges?
Cheers
Brian
April 20th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Hi Daniel, What would a set of 14 units cost…They look great… I guess less heat output as well? Seamus
April 21st, 2009 at 12:47 am
Hi Brian
Great questions
The light output of these fittings with the 15 watt CFL is meant to be the equivalent of a 75 watt incandescent light globe. I always think the manufacturers are being a little optimistic so I would compare it to a 60 watt light globe. A 60 watt incandescent globe produces 710 lumens whilst a 15 watt energy saver lamp 825 lumens. So you are using a quarter of the electricity and getting 14% more light!
You are right you dont need a transformer. Many people dont realise that there is also an energy loss when using a transformer. So there is an additional energy saving here!
The CFL also handle surges better than standard incandescent or halogen globes. I live an area where the electricity voltage is constantly changing. The CFL light output remains constant whilst the incandescent lights constantly change brightness. The CFL has not had problems at all.
Hope this makes sense.
Kind regards
Daniel
May 1st, 2009 at 11:43 am
How do you change the globe in these fittings? Do you have to get up in the roof? If so, then that rules it out for the bottom floor of my double storey house. Presumably they also have to be installed from above, which rules them out for replacing my existing ground floor fittings.
May 1st, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Hi Malcolm
Great question as it isnt too clear in the pictures
The globe is changed from the bottom. No roof access is required at all for either installation or maintenance which makes these no more difficult to chnage than any other light
You simply remove the glass and unscrew the old energy efficient lamp and replace it with a new one and you are away
Hope this make sense – If not please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
May 2nd, 2009 at 2:22 am
are these dimmable?
May 2nd, 2009 at 11:47 am
Hi Colin
As I mentioned at the moment there are dimmable CFL globes available but presently they are physically much larger than the standard CFL energy saving globes
So currently they would not fit into the housing. That isnt to say that they wont get smaller in the future as more manufacturers come into the marketplace. I am sure we will see them getting smaller and cheaper too!
This is the only downside I have found though. There are far more pros than cons so I still think they are fab!
Anything else please let me know
Thanks for reading
Kind regards
Daniel
September 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I bought the megaman cfl downlight and they take nearly 2 minutes to reach full brightness and 2 seconds to come on at all (a little disconcerting) . I was actually looking for better bulbs to put in the fitting I already had installed but it looks like I should have put these in in the first place. My questions
-Do these lights have a slow start up?
-Do you have two pin twist cfl globes?
September 27th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
This product looks great.
1) What are the installation requirements regarding seperation from thermal (ceiling) insulation;
2) how many would you recommend installing in hallways and living rooms e.g. m2 per fitting?
September 27th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Can these be fitted to replace existing downlights? My transformers keep blowing so these look much better. Is it an easy change over?
September 28th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Hi Jeremy
Many thanks for your enquiry
They really are a great fitting. I am putting them in my house at the
moment as I think they are still the best alternative to energy
sucking halogens
You dont have to worry about the insulation in your roof. Unlike the
halogens you can put the insulation right next to your fittings. They
have been tested with insulation running over the fittings
As far as spacings are concerned this really comes down to personal
preference and individual situations. Things to consider are wall
colours, ceiling heights and the amount of light you want. In kitchens
I would recommend perhaps 2 metres spacings but in lounge rooms with
high ceilings you would get a way with much less
They spread the light really well unlike the halogens which act as a
spot light so they are great all rounder
If you need any further info please dont hesitate to contact me
Kind regards
Daniel
September 28th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Hi Kim
This is a hard question to answer
For some people this will be an easy transformation but for others it will be a little more difficult and perhaps messy
It really depends on the hole cut size of your existing fittings. If you hole cut size is the same (or very close) to the new fittings it will take less than 5 minutes to convert
If the existing hole is smaller it will be a little more difficult as you will have to increase it a small amount to accommodate the new light fitting
All the electrical work must be done by a qualified electrician. Where the wires currently go into the transformer they are removed and simply attached to the new fitting.
If you have dimmers installed you will have to look at the dimmable fittings which come with the dimmable globe
I hope this all makes sense and if you need any more info please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
October 27th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Hi Daniel,
I’m just about to buy a bunch of these lights to install in my house. I agree, they look great and are fantastic energy savers.
One question about dimming … if I install these lights on a dimmer switch, but leave the switch at full brightness will I have any problems or do I need to replace the dimmer switch as well?
Cheers,
Jerry
October 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Hi Jerry
If you buy the non dimming lights you should get your electrician to disable the dimmer (takes 1 min to bypass)
If you dont you may get an annoying flicker or if someone accidentally tries to dim them the bulbs may blow
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Do these lights still have be installed with a heat shield and/or separated from ceiling batt insulation? My electrician advises that the cost of heat shields for downlights is quite significant and they must be provided unless the light fitting is certified to be OK without the shield.
Regards
March 16th, 2010 at 7:19 am
I have CFL’s installed in new house some 21/2 years ago. The last three bulbs I have had to change – I found it impossible to remove glass. After ripping fixture out of ceiling (plaster damage as spring clips pull through) I found that there is a plastic retaining collar which has obviously deformed with heat and time thus not allowing glass retainer to rotate all the way to drop=out point.
I have had to file engagement tabs on glass retainer (after a struggle to remove from above)just to enable re-fitting.
Has anybody else encountered this problem or am I the only person that has it seems “el-cheapo” composite (metal + plastic)light fittings?
I have returned to place of purchase and the LW14 fixtures are now all-metal. I think this tells the story!
March 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Hi Peter
These can be installed without the light guard. The new rules only apply to halogen lights so these are exempt
Kind regards
Daniel
April 14th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Hi Daniel
Re: Halogens, is there legislation stipulating that all halogen downlighs require a guard? Does this apply to all States also? Not ready to replace halogens yet plus my sister in Queensland is adding an extension but wants halogens so as to continue with the same fittings from the main house.
Hope you can help.
Cheers
Gidon
April 15th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Hi Gidon
There is a bit of info around on this subject but it comes down to individual circumstances and the layout of your roof but it really depends on distance off from potentially flammable to the light
Check out this google search
Or here is a link to an article on my site
It is a new Australian Standard so I guess that covers all states
With new technologies and light design coming through the halogen downlight will quickly become the less popular choice.
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
April 22nd, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Thanks for the great info here. I have some questions:
1.Are these a sealed unit, or will blow-in insulation have a pathway through the fitting and into the house, or at least to gather inside the glass baffle?
2.How much gap do I need between the gyprock and whatever is above it to fit these? I have a two story house with areas of raked ceilings.
3. Is there a similar fitting for raked ceilings?
4. Is there a resource to help me decide spacing for these lamps on different ceiling heights, over benches etc?
5.You mention considering wall colours in relation to light spacing (in reply to Jeremy). Can you expand on this please?
Thanks so much for this great resource
Jonathan
April 22nd, 2010 at 11:47 pm
Hi Jonathan
Thanks for your questions
The glass seals the front but there is an entry point where the globe hangs out of the fitting into the roof area. So it wont get into your house but will get into your fitting. As there is no air track though I think this will be minimal
The light needs at least 85mm clearance. To install it from the bottom you will need a little more to tilt it into position. There is no specific fitting for raked ceilings but it may fit depending on your clearances
There is no specific resource for determining the amount of lights required as there are so many outside factors that affect this (as you have mentioned)
For renovations it is pretty easy as I can guide you on wattage required to replace existing lights. For new install it is a little harder.
I always remind people though that in “the old days” a room would have a single socket in the middle of the room which we would have usually installed a 60 watt globe (the most common incandescent globe before they were banned). Then sometimes we would be fancy and put some sort of fitting over the socket to make it look prettier (this then reduced the light output again) and we all use to be happy with the light output. Then smarty lighting companies came out with halogen lights which provided very directional light and no longer could we have just one light in the middle of the room as the light went straight down and not everywhere like we were used to. . Then we had to install lots of lights (more sales $$$). So we went from 1 x 60 watt globe to 4 or more halogens (200 watts +) per room. Suddenly people ended up with 20 – 100 halogen lights in their home. Can you see why power bills are getting bigger people?
Then the government went on to ban the incandescent globe (which I dont think was the problem anyway) and we all had to start looking for energy efficient lighting. In reality the incandescent globe was not too inefficient when compared to the halogen nightmare we have created today.
Sorry – I have gone off track
I just went and took a photo of my bedroom for this exercise (we are looking at the light people not my wifes bad decision on sheets and pillow cases ok). This room has no ambient light and relies entirely on 2 x 15 watt sideway mounted lights like we are talking about. The light globes are warm coloured. You cant tell that they arent halogen or incandescent and I love them. I hope you agree that it is ample light! I installed the 2 lights right at the back of the room above the bed so we dont get shadows in the room (again unlike halogens)
When you decide on the amount of lights think about the surroundings. if you have dark timber, dark furniture or dark paint you might need more lights or higher wattage. if your rooms are bright and white you will get away with less. The beauty of the CFL lights is that they arent terribly directional. The light goes everywhere!
Thanks for the feedback and sorry for the long post
Kind regards
Daniel
May 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Hi,
Daniel.
I am impressed by all your replies to questions, well done. I think most question people have have been answered. I will be in contact about ordering some for a new project we are build now.
Lev
June 4th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
I am currently having a 6mx6m verandah built. It will have a gyprock ceiling and a flat cliplock roof above. It will be attached to the house on one side and open on the other three with rails. I was looking at lighting and the designer/builder is suggesting downlights. I want energy efficient lighting and am worried about energy consumption for normal halogen MR16 downlights.
I am attracted to these CFLs. Would they be suitable for my purpose given the semi-outdoor nature? Note that roofspace would be dry but there is a small possibility of wind blown spray on the exterior.
The area would be a barbecue/informal entertainment area. I am looking for fairly subdued lighting. What light spacing would be appropriate for the 6mx6m area.
June 21st, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Hi Ian
Thanks for your comment
Halogen lights are probably the most inefficient lights available but we need to put it into perspective. How many hours a week are the lights going to be actually on.
The energy efficient alternative wont be less or more affected by the semi outdoor situation than the halogens so I wouldnt worry about that. In fact the transformer to run the low voltage halogens is probably more of a problem that the CFL but neither are of great concern
Pick a warm coloured globe and we can even do these in a dimmable option now too
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
July 10th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Hi Daniel, looks like a great downlight option – I was worried about compromising too much with CFL’s, but they’ve made good progress with them it seems. I’m keen to avoid halogens and LEDs are still too pricey for the good ones.
It’s great to see you’re so helpful with these comments, so I’ll get to the point – a few questions for you, please…
1) Does the price include the entire housing as pictured?
2) Are dimmable globes now available in a size that suits this?
3) I’m fairly confident that 15w is enough light, but I see there is a 20w available in these globes. I am lighting a kitchen and good brightness is important – do you think 20w is going to be overkill?
Many thanks
Drew
July 13th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Hi Drew
Yes the price includes the fitting and globes
We can also do the CFL in dimmable now too which open up all sorts of possibilites not available before
The 20 watt are also great albeit larger (which is why I love the 15 watt as they are almost the same size as the halogens). You just need to look at the space you are going to put the lights in. Things to consider are ceiling heights, ambient colours of walls and furniture etc.
I use the rule of thumb 1 x 15W sideway mounted CFL = 1 x 60 watt old school bayonet fitting hanging from the ceiling. In the old days (5 years ago before CFL and halogens) most rooms in our house only had a single 60 watt globe
Hope this helps
Anything else drop me a line
Kind regards
Daniel
August 17th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Hi Daniel
We are building a large open plan family room / kitchen /dining extension and these lights look suitable, except for two problems:
1. Our ceiling will be 3300 mm high. I have heard that CFL down lights will not be adequate for such high ceilings and that we need to go for halogen down lights instead. Is this correct or can the height problem be fixed by spacing the lights closer or alternatively using higher wattage CFLs?
2. In order to get a dimmable light for the family room section I am considering fitting a few halogens. However, the halogens seem physically smaller and may look out of place when positioned next to these lights. Is it possible to fit a halogen into these fittings (I’m happy to rework the fittings if I need to) or buy a halogen fitting with a similar look?
August 21st, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Hi Chris
Many thanks for your email and my apologies for taking a little while to get back to you
I personally think that all these style of lights (halogen or CFL) work better at heights. You will get a much better and even light dispersion
If you are really worried you could look at higher wattage CFL fittings (20 watt or 23 watt) but I really dont think it is necessary
The best way to compare the light output of one fitting with something that you can understand is to think back when all home had a 60 watt incandescent globe in the middle of the room. Well I think the light output is very similiar to that in both quantity and spread.
We can also supply these in dimmable so they will match perfectly. Just email me your exact requirements shop@lightingpro.com.auy and I will do a quote up for you
Anything else in the interim please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
August 28th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Hi Daniel,
We are renovating our house and I’m considering these. Our ceilings ae quite low (2.5m), would you recommend using 11 watt globe? Also, what is the recommended spacing between globes?
Thanks,
Linda
August 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Hi Linda
Thanks for your great question
I think the 15 watt lights are a great choice as you can always put a smaller globe in them later if you need to. You can always go smaller but if you bought the 11 watt it is harder to get a bigger lamp to fit
The other thing you need to think about is which rooms you are talking about. The light required in the kitchen is going to be different to the light in the bedrooms.
The other good thing about the 15 watt is the lamp colour availability. I think the warm lights are great and these are not available in the 11W dimmable kits!
Anything let let me know and if you want me to do up a specific quote please let me know too
Kind regards
Daniel
(shop@lightingpro.com.au)
September 20th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Hi Daniel
I am interested in these lights and wanted a rough idea on spacings for them,we have standered height ceilings 2.4 i think timber flooring and darkish furniture,we mainly use lamps at knight however when people are over i would like the lighting to be quite bright as it would highlight the timber flooring.
Cheers Matt
September 21st, 2010 at 11:26 am
Hi Matthew
Thanks for your enquiry
This is always a hard call.
People require different amounts of light and your dark floors and dark furniture will suck a fair bit of light
I have just put these into my open lounge, kitchen and dining area. The area is approx 9 x 9 and 3m + ceilings we have put 8 in that area also with the 15 watt lamps (I have put warm colour lamps). That area is pretty light in colour and whilst it is adequate light for us I would not consider it “bright”
In the bathrooms I have only installed one and in each of the bedrooms there is two (we also have bedside lamps for reading)
I hope this helps
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
(shop@lightingpro.com.au)
October 19th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Hi,
Watched your video with interest how have you found the globes with respect to light output not diminishing and being sufficient
Would the number of 15W CFL downlights required to illuminate a room be the
same as 50W LV Halogen
Have you sold many of the dimmable Nelson units and have customers been
happy with them
I would like to go with CFL DL’s but have some concern with the CFL globes just based on my own experience replacing GLS globes with them
Not sure if I have picked the wrong brand or just been unlucky
Thanks
October 19th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Hi There
Hopefully you would need less 15 watt fittings compared to the halogen
Halogen are very directional so generally you need more lights so that the light output fills an area without dead spots
The Nelson dimmable fitting kits are OK. I hate them though due to the light colour being cool white which I think is too harsh for most living areas.
I have been putting the dimmable nelson globes in warm white colour for people who really want dimmable into our standard 15 watt fittings. The nelson dimmable globes will work fine as long as your dimmer is listed in their specs. If you dimmer is different then you will have problems
Hope this helps
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
March 29th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
Hi Daniel,
Is this fitting air-tight – ie. can air flow between the room it is lighting and the ceiling cavity? I think this is more or less the same question as one of Jonathon’s (post 21), but I want to be sure of this detail. I live in Canberra – substantially a heating climate – where any air escaping a room in winter is bad, especially through the ceiling.
You’ve got a great site here, by the way. I’d struggle to get the same frank advice from my local lighting stores.
Thanks,
Dave.
April 1st, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Hi Dave
Thanks for your enquiry regarding the sideway mounted energy saving CFL downlights
Due to the fact that the screw part of the CFL globe needs to exit the light fitting so that only the globe part of the lamp is inside the reflector there is a large hole between the fitting and the ceiling space
With that said the glass on the fitting seals pretty well but some air will still be able to get through (tiny tiny bit)
The only way to completely seal the ceiling space is to use non-recessed lights, use IP (Ingress protected) rated lights or fire rated light
I hope this helps and makes sense. Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
May 19th, 2011 at 7:39 am
hi daniel
iv just purchased a house that seems to be very dark inside during the day and i would like to put in halogen downlights but was open to anything else as an alternative for energy saving but was just as bright what would you suggest as the count is upwards of 40 halogen downlights at the moment
thankyou
scott
May 19th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Hi Scott
Thanks for your email
Downlights are always a problem as the are inefficient, get really hot and dont really give good light unless you install a lot of them in a room. The reason for this is that downlights are very directional and are more like spotlights (lighting a small area) rather than flood lights (broad area lighting) especially when fitted to standard height ceilings. The other problem with the halogens is that they are quite expensive to install now as they need to have heat guards fitted to prevent ceiling fires which adds to the cost of them. Before they were quite cheap!
There is some great LED technology available but unless you can budget $100 a fitting it is cost prohibitive still for most people
The lights I still like most are still the 15W sideway mounted compact fluorescents. I think for the energy consumption, the great light output and the looks of teh fiting you still cant go wrong. Everyone that has purchased a sample has come back for more.
We have some new models that have landed for a special price which makes them even more attractive
these are the cheap ones http://lighting-store.com.au/lightshop/product_info.php?products_id=1283
here is the expensive model but take the time to watch the video on here if you havent already http://lightingpro.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=62_117&products_id=441
Should you require any further info please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
July 11th, 2011 at 5:51 am
Hi Rob
The “Cheap” ones are an intro price at present.
The big difference is the quality of the globe but as the price difference is so much then that doesnt really matter – the cheap ones at the intro price are a great buy
The cheap one is also 5mm smaller which is better too
There is some great LED stuff around now but the price is still so horific that I think these are still the best buy for the average Joe in Australia (including me) at the present time
Anything else please let me know
Kind regards
Daniel
October 9th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Hi Daniel, I am considering replacing a significant number of downlights in our home. What sort of delay can I expect when I turn them on? Do they require a warm up time before maximum brightness? Reason I ask is if I put four of these lights into the exsiting ‘holes’ in the kitchen – will the fact that the lights are always being turned on and off as we come and go be an issue.